This is a message I sent to a girl from myspace who I'm discussing soteriology with. I thought it might be something my family would find interesting (or blasphemous). I post this one because I think it shows clearly the difference in reformed theology (or at least mine) and typical evangelical theology and why I have rejected it. Apologies for all the grammatical errors. These things take me forever to write even with the errors. Anyway,
After reading this I think I again come across as angry. Again, I am not. Try to hear my point rather than my tone. This is just the way I write.
I think the "free will" that we as humans have is not totally free because of the fall. When Adam sinned, it enslaved his will to sin, and he could no longer choose to please God. He had free will, but only to do evil. Man by himself is spiritually dead and cannot choose God until God first chooses him and makes him alive. Then man's will is free to choose God (which any person God makes alive always responds by then choosing God). The best example I know of is Jesus and Lazarus. Lazarus was dead (physically, but I think the analogy is to the spiritual realm). He could not respond until Jesus said, "Lazarus, come forth." There is life giving and creative power in God/Jesus' commands. If you look at it chronologically, Lazarus is dead, Jesus calls him, makes him alive and then the last thing is Lazarus responds by coming forth. When viewing my own salvation, I was dead in sin unable to do anything to please God (though this does not mean I was as bad as I could have been or that there was no appearance of good, my heart did not have God enthroned and thus any good works were not true good works. Without faith it is impossible to please God.) God, not because of anything he saw in me (nor because of any choice he saw I would make for Him) came in and regenerated me and gave me life. Then I, just like Lazarus, responded by having faith and repentance and accepting Christ. So it's not that I'm any better than anyone else, God chose to display His grace to me because He is God and can show His grace to who He wants to. Now as a Christian, God has freed my will, and I can please Him, though even my good deeds are because Him (for it is He who works in us both to will and to do according to His good pleasure Philippians 2:13) All of those issues you mentioned (she mentioned several issues that appear as "setbacks" or "unfortunate" events in the history of God's people) I think were and are part of God's plan to glorify Himself. I think that is one of the most important discoveries God showed me in coming to a reformed understanding. God is most concerned with His glory. He could have made everyone go to Heaven and there be no Hell, but this would not have most glorified Him. In fact I think that everything that has, is and will happen is exactly what God wants. I really believe that with all the sin, the world is perfect. Not according to my view, but according to God's view. This is pretty heady stuff, and a lot of people aren't ready to hear and believe that God is actually God. They want to use the term God but strip it of it's meaning. By calling God, God, it is acknowledging that He can do whatever He wants. He is the standard. Most people want God to be like we are, but He's not. He's so much infinitely above us. To limit Him in any way is to deny He is God. That is why I disagree with the typical view of free will. Free will, if defined as man's ability to act outside of the determination of God, I totally disagree with. If I were to concede this one point then I must admit God is not God, Christianity is a farce, I am still in my sin and have no hope. Either that or my conscious lies to me and really there is no guilt and this life truly is all there is. Either way we should eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die.
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7 comments:
For those of us not on the up and up with theological words, would you define soteriology?
I just read all of your blog and was glad to receive a thorough update on your thoughts of late. The thoughts you have written remind me of the many conversations we have had over the years, and I am glad to see you are still wrestling with the truth and with your sins. I am hopeful of where your present road will lead you, and I hope it frequently brings you to Nashville. I love you buddy and look forward to catching up on the phone tomorrow. I will call you after church.
Seth, I am glad you are back to blogging more often now. I have missed your comments! I don't feel this most recent blog is blasphemy, but I do feel you are making something harder than the Bible indicates it is. I also feel, in a way, that your viewpoint that God does not choose to give His grace to everyone is somewhat of a disservice to the sacrifice Christ made. The free will you describe is not free at all, in that it begins with an enslaved decision. It seems, from the Old Testament times to the New Testament times, that God always gave his people a choice. When they did not choose Him, he was sadened, angered, even vengeful at times. Just because God might already know what choice you and I will make does not mean he created a path off of which we cannot stray. Where would the glory for Him be in that? If that were the case, there would not be such lovely verses in the Bible about pigs returning to the mire and dogs returning to their own vomit! To me that is just taking something wonderful and joyful and turning it into something mechanical and arbitrary. The glory for Him, in my opinion, is that His creation, because through Christ he created a way for us, choose every day to follow him. If we are on that general path, His grace is extended to us during the times when we, because of our basically sinful natures, make incorrect choices. As long as we keep begging for His mercy, he is faithful to forgive our sins. As we have discussed many times, my opinion is that the biblical path to salvation is framed according to the commands of Jesus and the apostles in the New Testament. Believing that Christ is our Lord, choosing to repent of sins and follow God, confession of that choice, and baptism for the remission of sins. I don't believe in some arbitrary choosing of you but not choosing of your neighbor, brother, coworker, etc. I believe salvation is God's gift to all who choose Him, and in that choice He is glorified.
Jeremy and Katie, soteriology is just one's doctrine of salvation. The term 'saved' is used in so many ways in the Bible (we are saved, we are being saved, we will be saved, we have been saved, etc) and there are so many parts to it (election, predestination, calling, justification, faith, repentance, glorification, etc (Romans 8:30)) that people can use the term "saved" and mean very different things (I think this has caused a lot of unnecessary controversy between Catholics and Protestants, not that there isn't some necessary conflict, but a good bit from imprecise use of this exact term).
Eric, I look forward to hearing from you. Just seeing your note brings back so many wonderful memories. I wonder if in heaven we will know the benefit you've had on my soul. In some ways I resent you for the godly influence you had on me and the sin you refrained me from, but that's only when I'm being very honest.
Karina, while much of what you write I agree with, I cannot reduce salvation to a choice that I make. If the only difference between me and an unsaved person is that I have accepted God's free gift, and someone else has not, then truly I do have something to boast about. I think the reason I have nothing to boast of is because salvation is not by God's arbitrary choice, but by His loving choice. For some reason God chose to display His special redeeming love to me and give me a heart to choose Him. And while I don't know exactly why (perhaps because the depth of my wretchedness is so great, the even greater depth of His grace is shown more clearly than if He had saved the many non-Christians more moral than I), I certainly don't think it was arbitrary. It is definitely according to His plan for history. The scripture passages on this are abundant (which I will gladly go to the trouble to cite if you so desire). And while I agree God is glorified when He regenerates someone and they consequently choose Him, I also believe that God made all things for Himself, even the wicked for the day of doom. (Prov 16:4)
I feel compelled to write a little something, though none of you really know me. But I used to enjoy theological debate and because this is such an important topic, I'd like to put my two cents in.
Seth, you're basically saying God chooses us, right? And Karina, you're saying that we choose God?
You're both right.
God does indeed choose us. He has chosen every single one of us from the beginning. It's why Jesus' sacrifice is applicable to all of us today and not just the people of His time. But in return, we have to choose Him. He is always God, always all-knowing, and while He does indeed know who will accept His gift and who won't, it doesn't mean He hasn't extended that gift to all. That's why He's so amazing and why we should follow His example in loving those we're pretty sure will never love us back.
Our choice isn't to be saved. He has done that. Our choice is to sacrifice ourselves to Him. Our choice is an unshakeable faith. God, in giving us free will, has allowed us to say "no" to Him, just like a child to a parent. It doesn't mean that the parent has any less authority. And it doesn't mean that God isn't still God.
And Seth, you DO have reason to boast! But not in pride of self... but in faith and love of your God and who He is so that others might know what He has done for You and what He can do for others if they would only put themselves aside.
Hope all that made sense. It's been great reading and following along with someone else's family.
Jess, while I agree that God chooses us and we choose Him, only one of these can be deterministic and the other must be reactive. The question is why does God choose us and why do we choose God. I think the answer most supported by scripture is that God chooses us according to His will and we choose Him because He first chose us. I believe sinful man is spiritually dead and cannot do anything to please God or move himself toward God. When God chooses someone and regenerates them and gives them a new heart, then man is able to choose God.
In the end we must acknowledge who is ultimately responsible for salvation. Has God done all He can for everyone (as far as sending Christ to die for everyone without distinction), and it is up to man to accept this? If so the difference in me and an unregenerate man is that I accepted the gift. And no matter how you put it, that makes me better (or more intelligent) than him and gives me something to boast of, even if it is a gift. Or has God so loved and chosen a people out of all history that He would not only offer them salvation but also secure it by sending His only Son to die for them (thus fulfilling the just requirement of the law) and send His Spirit to give them a new heart? I believe this is the proper understanding of salvation and actually makes grace, grace. It truly is amazing that God would choose me, a person of the worst sort, to love and call His child.
This past Sunday the sermon was on John's recording of Jesus healing the sick man in John 5:1-18. In it we have a wonderful illustration of what salvation is. The man is not seeking Christ but another remedy for his illness. Christ seeks him out. Gives him a command and the man thus obeys in what was once impossible (walking). The reason this is so damaging to the Armenian perspective is that there were many who were sick, all wanted to be healed and all were diligently seeking it (though in the waters, not from Christ). Christ certainly had the power to heal them all, but for some reason sought out this one man. Now you may say that Jesus knew this man would accept His healing while the others would not (which is what Armenians say determines whether God elects a person or not), but this is contrary to the text. First, this man is just like all the rest (just as I would say I in myself am no different from Hitler or any other unconverted man) and second, when asked if he wants to be healed, he does not ask Christ for healing, but makes excuses for why he hasn't been healed by the water. One could almost say Christ healed him contrary to his will, for He sought healing in the waters, not from Christ. But anyway, that's just a quick rendition of it.
I stick by what I said earlier, salvation does not boil down to my decision, but God's. If God is not sovereign over this, then He isn't sovereign, and if He isn't sovereign, He isn't God. No God exists, but one in control of all things, by definition.
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