Here are a bunch of random thoughts for the last couple months. I think I might can offend some people with this one. I hope it is only the truth that offends and not incorrect thinking on my part.
I've taken a bit of break from reading theology, though The Fountainhead is a bit more heady than the typical fiction I enjoy (think Louis L'Amour westerns). It's by Ayn Rand, who was supposedly a pretty big deal. Her most popular work is Atlas Shrugged. I may read it as well, we'll see. I'm still not sure whether I like the book or not (or rather the question should be whether I think it's a good book or not), but I'm only a bit over half way through with it. There's much that I agree with in her worldview (Objectivism), but in the end it all ends up being totally arbitrary just like all other false views. I flatter myself, but in several ways I remind myself of her hero Howard Roark. I remember, at least in my adolescent years and perhaps before, thinking of how I wanted to be and consciously trying to make myself. I only achieved it to a certain degree (thankfully), but I think my goal was not too far from who Roark actually is. Whatever the case, the book definitely makes me contemplate myself. Again whether that's good or bad I'm not sure yet. It makes me either want to kill myself or do something, but never be one of the masses. But enough of that, maybe I'll write more when I finish.
Let's see what else? I've read several of Randy Alcorn's books of late (that's why I'm taking a break from theological books, that's all I've done for about the last 2 months) The first two were Safely Home and Lord Foulgrin's Letters. Here's a copy of my thoughts on them soon after finishing them.
“I just finished Lord Foulgrin's Letters by Randy Alcorn. It is, as he readily admits, a modern book in the vein of CS Lewis' The Screwtape Letters. While I greatly enjoyed that book last year and thought it had tremendous insight into the temptations I face, I even more heartily enjoyed Lord Foulgrin's Letters. It, just as Safely Home (also by Alcorn), not only brought me to actual tears running down my cheeks (a couple at least), but is extremely motivating . Alcorn appears to be heavily influenced, or at least in great agreement, with John Piper. Piper's theme of Christian hedonism often comes up in the demon's correspondence, and Piper himself is even mentioned by Lord Foulgrin as one whose books the humans must avoid. This is perhaps why I enjoyed and I trust benefited so much from it. While CS Lewis was a brilliant man and writer, I disagree with him on some major theological points that invariably come out in his writing. Lord Foulgrin's Letters and Safely Home are fiction books written from a worldview I agree with and tout the theological ideas that most echo my soul's cries.”
After finishing those I ordered The Purity Principle, Restoring Sexual Sanity, In Light of Eternity; Perspectives on Heaven, and Money, Possessions and Eternity all by Alcorn. The Purity Principle and Restoring Sexual Sanity were both good, In Light of Eternity was okay, but Money, Possessions and Eternity was one of the most influential books I've read. I'd read a very small book of his, The Treasure Principle, that has the same basic premise (Jesus doesn't condemn us for storing up treasure. He condemns us for storing it up where rust destroys and thieves steal - earth. He then commands us to store it up where rust doesn't destroy and thieves can't steal – heaven.), but Money, Possessions and Eternity was so thorough and compelling. Providentially I was reading it right before and on my way to Haiti. Alcorn, or rather Paul's idea from 2 Corinthians 8:14 that “but by equality: your abundance being a supply at this present time for their want, that their abundance also may become a supply for your want; that there may be equality:” could not apply more aptly to the abundance I have and the lack in so many Haitians. Indeed this is why I have been given wealth, not that I can indulge myself or look down on others, but so that I might redistribute it. God certainly could have made all men equal in all things, but then the relationship that can exist between me and a Haitian student who has no means of going to college save the generosity of others, would never be formed. Without the inequality my Haitian brother would not receive the humility of having to ask and depend on others and I would not receive the blessing of giving, prove my heavenly citizenship and have the responsibility of being depended upon. There is so much genius in everything (that may be the most profound thing I've ever said, that and “There's no excuse for disobedience”). I remember hearing Pastor Russ say (I believe referring to something Bavink said in The Doctrine of God) that the universe was as perfect as it could be. This is hard to believe with all the sin and suffering, but only when one has a such small view of God. If, and I maintain that He has to be, God is most concerned with His glory, then the greatest good is for Him to be most glorified, then whatever brings Him the most glory is best, regardless of it's effects on us. And God, again if He is truly God and not an idol we make, could not let anything happen that would not bring Him most glory. So all the sin, all the worst that we can imagine, all the clever sadistic things we do, all the marring of His image, is somehow exactly what must happen to bring God most glory. It may be the glorification of His wrath by seeing justice at last done and every deed repaid, or the the glorification of His love in pouring out His wrath on Christ for our sakes and imputing His righteousness to us. We will all glorify God, it's simply a question of how. Personally I think I am one who will show the breadth and depth of God's grace and love. If He can and does forgive such a sinner as I, who can and will He not forgive? I wonder if some I know will be trophies of His wrath. Men and women much more moral than I, whose lives are not cesspools of sin, who care for others, who speak with the tongues of angels, who give all they have for the sake of the poor, who render up their bodies to be burned, they do all this, but one thing they lack, love and trust in Christ. They will burn forever, an eternal testament to the unquenchable wrath of God, that even these, the best of men, are not righteous enough for God. That's what I've been thinking at least.
I also read To the Golden Shores The Life of Adoniram Judson. He was a missionary to Burma, in fact the first American foreign missionary. It was fantastic. Maybe not the best thing for me since I romanticize all the pain and suffering he went through (it's easy to do when you've never experienced persecution), but I thought it was great. I also began a biography of Hudson Taylor, but couldn't get into it. The writing just sucked. Another excellent book I read was God's Smuggler. It's about Brother Andrew, just a regular guy who smuggled Bibles into communist countries. It borders on mysticism, but I think he just has tremendous faith in God. Our abundance dispels our faith in God because it affords us so many precautions. Yes, I depend on God, but only if I lost my job, then all my savings ran out, then all my friends got tired of me, then the church failed me, the my family turned me out, then the government denied me, then, if all of that happens and only if all that happens, then I'll really pray to God for my daily food. Then I'll really depend on Him. It was so refreshing to read of someone who really trusted in God for everything, money, life, a home, a wife, and God provided. I think, no, I know, that God can be counted on, but I never really give Him the chance to do anything miraculous because I have such abundant natural means. That's an almost unstated premise of Money, Possessions and Eternity, you can give all you've got away like the widow with the two mites, you can give out of your poverty like the Macedonians, we have a God who owns everything. Now I say all this, but don't get the idea that I have done it. I haven't. I want to. I think it'd be amazing. Even if I died of starvation, I think self-starvation for the sake of others would be a great way to go. I get very little encouragement, though in this area. Everyone is quick to talk about what the Bible says about saving and investing and storing up and providing and a whole bunch of other circumstantial or proverbial evidence, but I haven't heard any good exegetical explanations of what the equality of 2 Corinthians 8:14 means besides “the state or quality of” “having the same amount”. Or why the reason we have been made rich is different from the reason God made the Corinthians rich in 2 Corinthians 9:11. I say all this as someone who would love to be convinced that I'm wrong. I love to indulge myself. I love having everything I want. The Canon 5D Mark II looks like an awesome camera. I'd like to have it. The 500/F4 or 600/F4 are both amazing lenses. I'd like to have at least one of them. I am if anything not an ascetic. But I'm also about the most rational person I know, and rationally I just don't see how I can justify it. Honestly I don't see how you justify it either. Oh, I'm not talking to just anyone, but how do you justify it if you honestly believe the Bible? I think it's one of those things that we all feel a bit guilty about because we all suck at giving (even though Paul commands the Corinthians to excel in the grace of giving 2 Corinthians 8:7) so we don't think about it. When the thought does come creeping into our head, we don't rationally justify ourselves, we just think of everybody else who is just as selfish as we are and who also has no rational justification for their indulgence, but has also pushed his guilt to the back of his mind. But enough on that.
Another book I read, quite a while ago but one I never got to write about, was The Five Love Languages. I did enjoy it. I thought it had some good insight, but it also had one glaring omission. His basic premise that we all have our preferential love language is true. His other premise that to express love we must do it in the recipients language, not our own, for it to be received as love is also true. A more general way of stating it is that the the object of affection determines the appropriate means of expressing affection. This is ultimately true of God who is only bound by Himself in how He determines such expression, but also true in human relationships as well, though limited by God's commands (you can't express, even if they want you to, your love to someone by murdering them). Understanding that and the practical helps in determining a person's love language I thought could be very beneficial. In fact the practical examples of couples trying to do that was the best part of the book to me. This whole idea was nothing profound as I had come to the above generalization independently long ago (though that particular phrasing came from Professor Glodo of RTS Orlando where John's going to seminary). So on those points I agree.
His five love languages are words of affirmation, quality time, receiving gifts, acts of service and physical touch. Even this I found helpful as I had not really thought of some of those as ways people actually experience love. For example words of affirmation mean little if anything to me. I know what I am. I know what I'm not. Your affirmation or denial of that does nothing to affect the reality of what I am (though I admit I can be wrong about it, in general I think I know myself better than you do). Acts of service also mean fairly little to me. What you did for me I probably could have done for myself, and while I appreciate you doing it, it doesn't communicate love to me. It just says that you like to or at least obediently serve others. Same with gifts. Pretty much anything bought says very little to me. Again, not that I don't appreciate it, but it doesn't say “I love, you” to me. A homemade gift may depending on how much time went into it. This though is because I think of the time value it signifies, which is also why quality time does mean something to me. With my family and with few closest friends, the time we've spent together (whether playing games, doing nothing but talking, driving, camping out, eating, whatever) are what give me a feeling of being loved. Physical touch is also important to me (he explicitly refers to this as non-sexual, which I'll get to later). Those I love I enjoy even just giving and receiving a hug from or fitting five people on a couch. So all of the above I found helpful, and had he written the book with no specific audience, but just a general “This is how you can relate to anyone and everyone better.” then I would think he succeeded. However, every (as far as I can remember) example and case study is of a married couple. Not that I'm saying what he's written doesn't apply to all relationships, but it is clear that the book is targeted at improving the relationship between a husband and wife. Again, nothing wrong with that, but how can you write a book talking about marital love and the ways of speaking it and not talking about sex. It's like talking about communication and the means of communicating through sign language, and letters, and body language and never talking about speaking actual words with your mouth. It is the supreme expression of love in marriage. If you disagree with that, then you're wrong. Oh I'm sure you're being honest when you say that it doesn't feel like the supreme expression of love, but as in everything else, your feelings having absolutely zero bearing on what is true. Deep down everybody knows this, but for whatever reason they don't want to admit it ad try and deny it. Take a married couple for example. A husband doesn't often hide when he's going out to spend quality time with his friends or family (unless of course he's going out to lust or commit adultery, which only proves my point more) nor is the wife usually hurt by this. A husband doesn't hide his affirmations of a friend or coworker (again unless it's an attractive female, which only proves the point again). Nor does a husband hide gifts he gives to friends and family (unless it's an attractive female, which only proves the point yet again). With all of the afore mentioned love languages, you can find examples of where they can and ought to be spoken to those we come in contact with. Not so with sex. It's only supposed to be spoken to one's spouse and when it's spoken to anyone else, whether that a closest friend or a prostitute, there's hell to pay. For most people it's probably the most hurtful thing one can do. This only makes sense if sex is in fact the supreme expression of marital love. Otherwise why can't I go have sex with anyone I want just like I can give someone a word of encouragement or spend quality time with them? Sure, God said I can't and that's sufficient reason enough, but do you really think God's that arbitrary? It's not like if God hadn't said adultery was wrong wives would be fine with their husbands bringing home some hot 20 year-old every night to have sex with in the guest room before he came to sleep them. The reason God has given so many restrictions is because it is supreme. It is the most powerful, both positively and negatively. I really just don't understand why people won't admit what they experientially know.
I hadn't intended on ripping on women, but I think I'm about to. I used to think that women in general were much less selfish than men in general. Maybe that's still true of men and women in general, but as far as good Christians go, men seem much more the ones concerned with pleasing their wives than the wives pleasing their husbands. The Christian men I know who have or are preparing to or even thinking about marriage, have at least somewhat of an understanding of the responsibilities that it evolves. Now certainly they don't have a full understanding but they know that there's more responsibility and in a lot of ways it's going to suck. They can't do whatever they want anymore. They have to sit and listen to things they think are stupid. They have to be patient when she gets offended for no reason. He has to try and explain things that seem self explanatory. He can't buy his favorite toys anymore. He can't spend 12 hours playing computer games. He can't camp out for the whole summer. He can't go backpack for a summer in Europe. I could go on and on about things guys anticipate having to give up when they get married. Some guys aren't willing to give up these things, and I'm sorry that women have become so desperate that they marry guys like that, but the solid Christian guys I know are committed to being a man in their marriage and giving up things, even though in a lot of ways they know it's going to suck. Even the secular “ball and chain” terminology is evidence for it. Guys go into marriage knowing in some ways it's like going to prison. But just as Christ endured the cross “for the joy set before Him.” guys are willing to get married for the joy set before them. That's great. I commend the men I know who love and serve their wives sacrificially. If anybody should, it should be solid Christian men who show the world Christ's sacrificial love. As far as I can tell though, women have no concept of this. From the very beginning it's all about what she'll get, not give. From the pointless waste of an expensive engagement ring to an extravagant wedding ceremony, it's all about how can she be served. You can even tell from the incredible silliness and plain stupidity that girls get when one of them gets engaged that they have no idea of any of this. In the midst of showing off their rock, do they have any idea that they've agreed to enter into the most difficult relationship humanly possible? I don't think so. And here I'm talking about supposedly solid Christian women. With this mindset it's not surprising that in every marriage I know of, it's always the wife whining and complaining about something. How she's not being served. Getting upset for the most childish reasons. It's almost embarrassing when I hear men speak of how their wives act. Unconverted children know better than to behave like that, and here are Christian wives acting like the spoiled kindergarten kid who nobody liked. Of course I can understand her being disappointed when she thought she was entering into a life of get, get, get and now she's being asked to give. Did she really not know that the primary reason guys get married is for sex? It's the “joy set before him”. That's the reason he's willing to deal with all the stuff that makes men think women are stupid.
It's interesting that God doesn't give a whole lot of things for a wife to provide her husband. She's a helpmate, but that's providing help in what he's already doing. She's to provide children, but even then she's got to have a sperm and that's sexually related. She's to be a homemaker, but that's being, not providing. Off the top of my head, the only, or at least the biggest thing, I can think of that she has the responsibility to provide is sex. Obviously good wives could provide more, but the only responsibility is sex. I don't know what Greek word is used so I'm not sure if this applies, but if he who does not provide for his own household is worse than an unbeliever, then what is she who does not provide for her own husband? But besides what the Bible might say, if it's true that the object of affection determines the appropriate means of expressing affection, how many wives are very concerned with how their husbands want them to express their love? Lots I hope, but few I fear.
You may say that I don't really want a wife, I just want a sex slave. Ha. You haven't even begun to understand me. Your right, I do want a sex slave, but not merely a sex slave. I want a slave in every area of life. And not just a slave, but one who is joyfully committed and obsessed with making me happy. And not only is that what I want but it's the only thing I would accept. Now before you condemn me for an egotistical maniac, isn't that what the call to marriage is? Isn't that what love is? As Piper said, “overflowing joy in God that gladly meets the needs of others.” That's all I want is to be loved. Someone who has such joy in God that it overflows and happily meets my needs. And if I ever say “I do” I won't simply be saying “I do agree to marry you” but that I'm committed to joyfully and obsessively make you happy, regardless of the cost to me for the rest of my life. That is the only true marriage. It's not my view that disgraces marriage, but any and every other view.
I'd say this is probably the biggest reason I'll never marry. Very few women would I accept, and even fewer would accept me. So basically you've got a very small probability times a very small probability which results in an incredibly small probability. Only at times is this troubling. As wonderful as marriage is in my imagination, there's no actual physical marriage I've ever seen that I'm envious of. That is a shame. Not just for me, but for Christendom - that Christians can put nothing forward that is enviable or encouraging. When Jonathan Edwards was dying, he wrote a letter to his wife (who to be so praised by Jonathan Edwards, must herself have had an incredible disposition of holiness) about their “uncommon union” that was so sweet it must have been of a spiritual nature and would exist in heaven. But, I am talking about Jonathan Edwards, so who am I to suppose that I could have such a union. I have a half finished blog about the many reasons I won't marry. If I finish it I'll post it.
On my trip to Haiti I also wrote my obituary. I think it a healthy exercise and recommend it to you all. Apparently Alfred Nobel, who before coming up with the Nobel Peace Prize, had made his fortune inventing or marketing dynamite. At his brother's death, a village accidentally printed Alfred's obituary. It condemned him for growing rich on death and destruction. After seeing this it dramatically changed the course of his life and we have the Nobel Peace Prize due in large part to this change. What follows is mine.
William Seth Walters March 22, 1980 to March 1, 2009. Survived by his parents and siblings. Seth was one of the supreme examples of those who “have done so little with so much.” Marked by pride, arrogance and selfishness, he lived his life with little if any regard for the thoughts, feelings and needs of others. His distorted view of God's sovereignty made him almost totally apathetic to the conditions of others, though he himself basked in God's good providences. He did virtually no good for the cause of Christ. His Christianity was primarily of an intellectual and philosophical type with little affect on the way he lived. He is almost certainly in heaven now, but has almost just as certainly suffered incredible loss when before Christ he was shown the massive amounts of wasted time, talents, possessions and opportunities that could have been used for the sake of Christ. He would have been a great man if his selfishness had been eternally rather than earthly minded, or if he had followed through on any of his untold number of good intentions. The only lesson one can take from his life is if God was willing to save one such as he, surely He can save one such as you.
Part of writing that was was also due to reflecting on my upcoming birthday. It is, even for me, hard to believe that I am now twenty-nine years old. It seems like yesterday that I was thinking about thirty being so far away. It seems like the last decade has been just a blink, and I could well believe it, seeing as can't think of anything that I can genuinely look back on with pride in these last ten years, but alas, I am sure there have been ten years, each with 365.25 days for me just as for everyone else. And yet despite the gloom of the past, for what may be the first time ever, I feel some real motivation to live. The motivation I've had in the past has for the most part been, “I'm alive so I might as well live for something or at least do something to occupy the time and this seems as good as anything else.” but I wouldn't call it real motivation. It's in large part due to Alcorn's books and the more full understanding of heaven I've gotten from them. The biggest being that heaven won't be the same for everyone. There'll be levels there just as in hell. Some will rule, some will be ruled. Some will have great treasure, some will have none. Now what all this treasure will be used for and what type and size of mansion we'll each have, I still don't know, but just using the word treasure means it's a good thing. As of right now I don't have much treasure. I want a lot of treasure. You can try and be all holier than thou and say that you don't care about treasure, but it's Jesus who tells us to store up treasure in heaven and gives us the motivation. Even more so than this however is in thinking about experiencing fullness of joy in God in heaven. Obviously everyone there will be full of joy, but the capacity or size of the container will be different. Right now I think it would take about a teaspoon to give me “fullness of joy” while with men like Paul, Edwards, Brainerd, McCheyne and Piper, God will have to empty out the oceans to fill them. I want to have my capacity stretched. To be honest, I want it to be stretched to the limits of what God allows the human heart to be stretched. I imagine this must be painful, as any stretching is, and suffering is the key. It's so hard to voluntarily suffer though. Richard Wurmbrand, author of Tortured for Christ, said something to the extent of ninety-five percent of Christians pass the test of suffering while ninety-five percent of Christians fail the test of prosperity. I have thus far definitely failed the test of prosperity. Coming from someone who spent fourteen years in prison, that is somewhat comforting hearing that I would likely pass the test of suffering if presented with it. But it's so hard to suffer when you don't have to. We, and me more than most, are such slaves to our comfort. Really, that's what it is. We are in bondage to our own ease. I can't do this because it would hurt. I can't do that because I'd be uncomfortable. For all our talk about money giving us freedom to do this and that, I think it keeps us from doing more than it enables us. When John Wesley was told that his house had burned down, after careful contemplation he said, “The one I have been living in belongs to the Lord, and if it has burned down, that is one less responsibility for me to worry about.” I want that attitude. By God's grace I shall have it.
Sorry for the randomness, just had a bunch of stuff I wanted to put down on paper.
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18 comments:
That was quite an amazing piece of literature. Long as promised, but certainly worth reading. I still hold firm that you would be a phenomenal writer. I know I, for one, would hang on every word.
It was, of course, the section on women bashing that caught the majority of my attention and therefore will select it to comment upon. Imagine that. I mostly found it humorous, which must be because of its truthfulness. It is immensely sad how many married women complain so openly about their husbands. I don’t think I’ve met a married woman to-date that shows as much respect to their husband as I believe she should. However I have not seen proof that there is any trend in Christian men being aware, and completely willing, to give up singleness and all the accompanying benefits upon marrying. The majority of men do continue playing computer games, enjoy extended hunting trips, and buy those favorite toys and then expect to come home to sex. The majority of women tend to become more of a homemaker (while complaining about it continuously), but then expect their husbands to spend some quality time with them. (Apparently having to listen to things that are stupid. I loved that one!) Ah...expectations.
Maybe this is due to my lack of ever meeting one of the “solid Christian guys” you know. But of the men and women I’ve known, I’ve determined that both are equally unaware of the extreme sacrifices that marriage will require. Each must give up “you” to become “us.” Granted, giving up yourself is not easily done, especially seeing how you’ve spent your entire existence becoming you. But I hope the process is more easily done when Christ is at the center.
But I have to ask… Do you really believe all women are unaware of the sacrifices that are required of her upon becoming a wife? Do you not know at least one woman that could enter into a marriage for what she can give rather than receive, and who would be committed to making her husband and his happiness her primary focus?
Personally, I know of at least one.
And why do you speak of sex as if it is only a benefit for the husband? So wrong!!
Seth, I certainly don't write with your eloquence, but I did want to respond. My response may be a little disjointed, but only because I am going to respond to each section at a time.
I admire you greatly for spending so much time thinking deeply about your relationship with God and what it means to be a true Christian. You definitely seem to ponder the proper attitudes toward money, sex, creature comforts, etc. more than most people I know. However, it seems like you write out of a deep sense of guilt that seems overwhelming at times. Jesus has paid the price for your sin. God's wrath was satisfied, once and for all, with Jesus' death on the cross. I fear that in your intellectual journey toward enlightenment, you are totally missing the point of the grace that is so extensively discussed in scripture. To me, all of the self-loathing just unjustifiably makes insignificant the pleasure God had when he first saw his created "man" and said, "It is good." I realize that the fall of man then brought about a whole new element of displeasure to the relationship that God has with His children, but I have a really hard time taking it to the extremes that you do.
If you find yourself in a situation of persecution or starvation, then of course, your Christian role is to try to glorify God in that. And the example of Job does lead one to believe that God does, at times, allow grave hardships to befall some people, with the primary goal being his glorification. I do not, however, think that seemingly denying yourself all of the comforts and pleasures that God created for you to enjoy is to his glorification. The blessings of family, sex, marriage, and the beauty of nature are things that come to mind that should be embraced as gifts from a God that initally loved his creations and made them for each other.
On to the discussion of love languages and sex. Yes, I will freely admit to being a little offended by some of the comments, but I also love you and forgive you freely! I think one of the major points about that book is that you cannot expect others to be like you, to express love in the same way and to desire love to be expressed in the same way. One of the most important things, to me, is to learn the love language of my partner, but also to be allowed to freely express my love in my own language at times. It's hard to explain, but there is a certain giddy joy I feel when I get to express my love for others in my love language. The fluidity of a relationship should allow for acceptance and expression in many different ways. To specifically address one thing you said... if gift-receiving is not your love language, but you can see it very clearly is one of the love languages of your partner, you should not "shut them down" for all future gifts. That leaves a distinct void in that person's life as he/she will feel empty each time he wants to express his love with a gift and it is underappreciated. This is surely one of the ways you have to adapt in a marriage, to not only demand love in your language, but to learn to speak it in the language of your partner as well.
As far as the "ripping on women" goes, I'm sure much is justified. However, Seth, I feel that much of it comes from a lack of true understanding or compassion on your part. I feel like mankind as a whole, and probably Americans, in particular, are much more prone to complaints. Everything in our news and media is geared toward ideas such as "woe is me", "I'm entitled", and "the sky is falling." A much smaller segment of the population actually has to physically "work" for a living, leaving a lot of unfulfilled, bored people, looking to others to make them happy. An obvious outcome of this is for people to be cranky and complaining, looking to fluff rather than God, family, hard work and nature to fulfill the need for joy.
I think that it is unfair to talk about marriage as the equivalent of a man going to prison. If you think like that going into it, how can you ever expect to have a good marriage? You would be so focused on what you can't have and less focused on how your circumstances have improved. A man gets alot more from marriage than sex. In a good marriage he often gets a cleaner environment, the lifetime joy of children, someone with whom to share the ups and downs of life, better food, a readily available tennis partner! There are sacrifices to be made, for sure, but they are made not just for the promise of sex but also because people just grow up! You might not get to do whatever you want, but you still get to do plenty of things. If it was truly a prison, why would so many elderly men, who lose their wives of 50, 60 or 70 years, often lose their will to live and die within a year of the wife's death? It is because marriage is a gift from God. He made us to desire a relationship with a member of the opposite sex, not to view it as a millstone around the neck!
Another point of contention I have is with the statment that being a homemaker is "being, not providing." WHAT??? You are most certainly providing as a homemaker. How is a man who is going out to a job providing for a family any more than a woman who is at home providing a clean house, good food, and clean and happy children. In either case, if the person is not doing his job, the job is left undone. A toilet doesn't get scrubbed on its own. Clothes don't get laundered on their own. Food doesn't get bought and cooked on its own. A child doesn't get breastfed at 11pm, 3am, and 5am on its own. Dirty diapers don't just disappear without someone PROVIDING a clean one. Need I go on? This is not the case in my home, but many times all of this is done with the husband sitting on the couch, watching TV, or in front of the computer, playing those video games that he had to give up when he entered his clean, good smelling prison.
Finally, let's talk about the sex. You are at a time in your life, and in an unmarried situation, where sex probably does seem like the end-all in a marriage relationship. After you've been married 10 years, and have done it thousands of times, though, you will probably be able to see it through slightly different lenses. I DO believe that a woman should keep her husband satisfied sexually, and vice versa. There are even times in a man's life, though, where sex just takes a back burner to other things such as making a home or dealing with children. And I did say in a MAN'S life, not just a woman. Women do talk, you know, and there are many, many wives out there who desire a more full sex life than their husbands. I attribute this to chemicals in the environment decreasing libido much in the way that sperm counts have been drastically decreased since the 1950's.
And a high sex drive is not a lasting thing, in men or women. You are in a peak, but in 30 years, I can just about guarantee you that your love for your wife will have much less to do with sex, and much more to do with those pesky little non-sexual love languages.
The last thing I want to say about that is this...you must understand about female hormones. It may seem like being stuck between a rock and a hard place, but so much of a woman is related to her hormones AND not everything is related to her hormones. So much of what you characterize as "stupid", "childish", and "gets offended for no reason", will only be agreed with by HALF of the population. Since that other half is the other part of that sexual relationship, it would serve a man well to eliminate those labels from his vocabulary, at the least, and even his way of thinking, if he is strong enough. What woman wants to have sex with a man that thinks so many of her thoughts and feelings are stupid, childish, and without reason? Not many, even Christian ones. God just didn't make us the same. That's a simple fact. For men, it's mostly about the sex organs, but for a woman it's primarily about the brain. If she feels like she is loved and valued for who she is, and not just the small percentage of a man that she resembles, she will be much more likely to fulfill that sexual role cheerfully. Even then, though, the wave of hormones that change a woman at various times in the monthly cycle is something that a man cannot ever fully understand. It doesn't make her less than he is. Quite the opposite. It makes her capable of things that he can never achieve (carrying a child). Hormones do have their drawbacks, of course, but the smart husband learns to go with the flow, not revert to the "single-guy" mentality every time the estrogen ramps up or the progesterone bottoms out.
So, Seth, I miss you and love you. I look forward to seeing you soon. Maybe I'll get to be one of those five on the couch with you, and I may even give you a gift!
Julie, I'll readily admit that most guys are as you describe them, and I imagine I have a much worse view of them than you do. And the “solid Christian guys” I know are quite few. But they exist. Not saying that I'm one of them. My friends are a credit to me, and I a shame to them. I'm going to exercise a little discretion and leave it at that.
Rina, I'd hoped you would comment. You often have as polar opposite a view from me as possible, so I enjoy trying to see where I have taken it “to the extremes”. As far as my view of myself, my sin and the cross of Christ, I only see the beauty of the cross in relationship to my sin. Luke 7:47 clearly teaches that he who is forgiven much, loves much, while he who is forgiven little loves little. There's a direct proportion there. The more you understand what you have been forgiven, the more you will love. The less you understand what you are forgiven, the less you will love. Oh that I could have such an extreme view of my wretchedness. How great would be my love for God then. I can only hope that when I say that I am the greatest sinner, I mean it as much as Paul did (1 Timothy 1:15). I'm trying more and more to have that attitude that Jonathan Edwards put forth in his 8th Resolution - “Resolved, to act, in all respects, both speaking and doing, as if nobody had been so vile as I, and as if I had committed the same sins, or had the same infirmities or failings as others; and that I will let the knowledge of their failings promote nothing but shame in myself, and prove only an occasion of my confessing my own sins and misery to God.” Though I am not deserving of it, I consider your condemnation as one of the highest compliments ever paid me. I only hope my heart believes what my fingers type.
I will readily admit that “we've been given all things richly to enjoy.” But is that the end of it? Is that the only way we're supposed to look at “family, sex, marriage, and the beauty of nature”, to enjoy them unbounded? Is that what Piper means by Christian Hedonism? What about fasting? Why would we ever fast if we've been given all things, including food, richly to enjoy? Because God, above all things, has given us Himself richly to enjoy. Fasting reminds us of that. That is why hunger and thirst were created in the first place, so that we would know what it means to hunger and thirst for God. That's why sex was created, so that we'd know what it is to crave intimacy with God. My sex drive is more condemning than anything else. Not because I indulge it, but because it's greater than my God drive. As Edwards explains in Religious Affections, we always do what we want. There is no true sacrifice that we can make. I want to come to the point where I would gladly “sacrifice” “family, sex, marriage, and the beauty of nature” for God Himself. Not because it would really be a sacrifice, but because God is worth so much more that it's no sacrifice. It's like the buried treasure the guy found who sold all he had to buy the field with the buried treasure. He didn't sacrifice. He got a great deal. That's what Jesus was talking about when He said, “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.” It's no sacrifice to follow Christ, it's a great deal. We get “a hundredfold now in this time – houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions – and in the age to come, eternal life.” (Mark 10:30) Where does your chief enjoyment lie, Karina? Do you honestly hate Radnor in comparison to Christ? And I ask myself the same question. I'd give my heart to Radnor if he needed one, but compared to my love for God, that should be hatred.
As for the love languages, I think you missed perhaps one of the more subtler points. The idea is not to get your spouse to receive gifts in your love language, but to give them in his. Sure, if giving gifts makes you happy then give gifts, but don't expect that to communicate love. He may know that you are trying to say, “I love, you.”, that's not what you are saying. What you're actually saying is “I love myself.” Which there's nothing wrong with saying, “I love myself.” Indeed we should say that. But don't mistake that for loving others. Again, as Piper said (and this is maybe the best thing I've taken from him) love is overflowing joy in God that meets the NEEDS of OTHERS. You giving me a gift doesn't meet a need in me, specifically the need of receiving a gift. You letting me play with Radnor does, specifically the need of quality time, which is love to me. That's how I know you love me, Rina. Because you have me over for dinner and let me play and babysit Radnor. Not because you fixed a meal for me but because you had me over. Or let Josh go climbing with me. Again, because you let him spend quality time with me, which is one of my love languages. Or you take the time to write out a reply to my offensive ramblings. You may not have thought that speaking your love language was saying, “I love myself”, but you unintentionally alluded to it by saying you get a “giddy joy” from doing it. Despite all that, my main point was to say that God has said that the the primary love language of marriage is sex. Regardless of a person's preference, that is the one that objectively you have to learn and express. Not because it's theirs or yours or anything except that it's what
God commands. Secondarily because it is probably a woman's husband's.
And even though I acknowledged beforehand that I'd probably offend some, I haven't acknowledged that I've actually done anything wrong in which I need to be forgiven. Maybe I have sinned, but offending someone isn't necessarily sin. I think far too often it's sin on the offended party's part, and they need to confess their sin of being so easily offended. But really that's more than I ask. I'd just like it if people would quit being offended so easily. I've often said, and I believe it's true, that I'm unoffendable. But that's what happens when you know yourself to be a great sinner. There's no cutdown that could be too low. I am discovering that those who are most self-righteous are the most easily offended. If you call me a piece of crap, it's only generosity that you didn't call me a piece of shit. But if you call a self-righteous person a sinner or even not a perfect person, then you've offended them.
While I agree that our society is dominated by a victim and entitlement mentality, I'm not sure how that applies to women, except that they are part of society and thus also have that mentality. I know and understand that, but that wasn't my point. Yes, women, and men as well, in general suck, but I wasn't ripping on women in general, but women who are supposed to have the love of God in them, who know themselves to be sinners saved by grace, who know that woman was created for man, not man for woman (1 Corinthians 11:9), who understand that men and women are not equal, but complementary, who understand the law of non-contradiction (contradictory statements cannot both at the same time be true), well, maybe not understand it but are at least are able to reason and use it. These are the women I'm ripping on, the elite upper echelon of women. Which means to avoid being ripped on you just have to admit that you aren't in that category. My basic argument was that the best men are pretty bad ass men. The best women still seem to have some pretty unbiblical ideas. Of note, I do not consider myself in that “best men” category. This is me looking at the best men I know and who I would think would be the best women I know.
As for “true understanding or compassion”, if by understanding you were talking about the victim mentality, then I assure you, I've spent a fair amount of time contemplating it. If you'd like me to go into an explanation of how the obedience and adherence to God's laws of our forefathers (many of them Puritans) and creating a government based on biblical principles has resulted in our abundant blessings then I will. And while we still benefit from these blessings, we (as a society) have lost the Christian base for it (one major part being the Puritan work ethic). If you mean something else then you'll have explain that. If by compassion you mean “emotion prompted by the pain of others”, I also assure you, I feel that. Compassion however does not overrule my reason. Not only does it not, but I find that a very undesirable trait.
As far as marriage being like going to prison, I still maintain that. As I said before, we always do what we want, so in that respect you're right, marriage isn't like prison. Marriage is voluntary while prison is involuntary. But as far as giving things up, being confined, I think if people went into with that understanding than their marriages wouldn't be so disappointing. As far as the things you mentioned for things a husband gets besides sex (cleaner environment, lifetime joy of children, someone with whom to share the ups and downs of life, better food, a readily available tennis partner), I find that quite sad that's all even a woman could come up with. You make the point much more strongly than I could. All of those things (cleaner environment – clean up yourself or get a clean roommate, lifetime joy of children – adopt, someone to share the ups and downs of life – be a friend and have friends even one like David or Jonathan, whose love was greater than that of a woman, better food – learn to cook (there are way more male chefs than female, tennis partner – join a league) can be met in other ways with a lot less costs. As I said before, sex is the only thing that essentially differentiates marriage from every other human relationship. I never said there weren't other things, just that's the primary motivation. There are others.
When I said that about providing I was specifically talking about the word “provide”. What does the Bible say a wife has to “provide”? That was the question. Not what are the merits of what a wife does but what does the Bible explicitly say she has to “provide”. Though from what you wrote, you make wives sound more like housemaids than comparable helpmates. Fortunately I have a higher view of women than you put forth.
Believe it or not but there are few things I look forward to more than my sex drive dropping off. I don't think mine has fluctuated from the crazy high level of an adolescent boy since I was an adolescent boy. But really that's kind of irrelevant. The arguments I presented were logical arguments. A woman or eunuch could make them just as effectively.
Hormones, hormones, hormones. Honestly I think it's pathetic how often women use that as an excuse for their sins. Crazy hormone levels are no excuse for a woman to act like a bitch any more than built up sperm is an excuse for me to hire a prostitute. The two sins the Bible most often associates with the sexes are, for men, lust, and for women, complaining and being a nag. Now I never hear men making excuses for lusting by saying that their testosterone levels are really high so just deal with it, but rather that it's a sin that must be fought and warred against until it is killed. But I do often hear women say that their complaining, whining, quick temper and whatever else is due to their hormones and not something that they need to deal with (as sin), but something that their husbands need to deal with. That's really the part that I find so unacceptable. I know I'm a sinner. I know women are, too. That's not the issue. The issue is whether they repent of it. But when it's not even viewed as sin, then of course there's not going to be any repentance.
If getting married is the ultimate goal, then you're right, that language should be eliminated. A man should never try and convict his potential spouse of sin. Most women are far too fragile to handle it and it will certainly drive them away. Flattery will work much better in securing their affections. But if marriage isn't the ultimate goal, but merely a means to a higher end, then maybe we should be more concerned with being Christlike, and helping others become more Christlike, then coddling each other. Many people (women especially) have made marriage the end. And that's why they end up so disappointed, because it's not sufficient as an end. God alone is an end and the end. So I won't get rid of that language. It's my “white-washed tombs” and “brood of vipers”. I realize and accept the consequences of that.
Seth, I will begin by freely admitting that I don't really understand some of the arguments you make. Not in a snarky way, but in a literal way. You intellectualize some of the points way more than I do, so if I misunderstood some of the arguments please forgive.
I get what you are saying about coming to such a realization of your wretchedness. I would even say that to be a true Christian you MUST at some point come to that realization. What I take issue with, though, is the constant dwelling on it. I won't just restate any of my previous statements, but I do believe you can come to that realization and then move on. Moving on to the "meat" of Christianity by then focusing your energy on living for God, not self-flagellation to the extreme.
To me a discussion of fasting does not even fit into the argument I made about "family, sex, and the beauty of nature". I am not saying you should only indulge yourself and never practice spiritual discipline. I am only saying that you should not use God as an excuse to never find your way back to joy, all within the boundaries He set out for us in scripture. I am stressing that He GAVE us those things. He didn't dangle them in front of us, like a carrot, and then say, "These are tasty, but because of your wretchedness you should abstain from them." I just feel like you are somewhat making a case for depriving yourself too much. That would be your choice, of course, but I don't see that as being God's commandment for you ("you" being the faithful Christian.)
As far as the love languages go, I didn't miss the point as you thought I did. That was the primary point of the book. I do, however, feel that there are two sides to the love languages. I will try to explain with this example. If Josh and I were to read the book, I would want us to come away with a multi-faceted greater understanding. I would not only want him to learn to love me in my love language, I would also want to learn to love him in his language. To take it even further, though... If he expresses love in a different language than that I use to express my love, I would want a greater understanding of that. If his language were giving gifts and mine was quality time, I would want him to still feel free to give me gifts. However, I would also want him to make an effort to spend quality time with me, since he has now learned that this is my love language. If you disparage the love language of your partner, and only insist that his love be expressed in your love language alone, I believe you do deprive your partner of a certain amount of joy. I, personally, find joy in the giving of things to others, whether it is gifts to my family members or money or time to worthy pursuits. I do not feel that this is saying my love language is "I love myself." Rather, I think this is an important part of the principle of "It is better to give than to receive." If you don't get joy from giving to others, I think you are missing out on one of the wonderful things of life.
I'm going to end this post and start another due to an iffy internet connection.
Continuing...the part about offending another is just a smokescreen to me, Seth. I think you know there are several things about your original post that might bring feelings of great sadness to those who love you, especially the females. I can take it, I assure you, but I do wonder at the attitude of saying this, " I think far too often it's sin on the offended party's part, and they need to confess their sin of being so easily offended." Where is the boundary? Do you really think that you could just say anything, no matter how hurtful, and expect for everyone to just believe that they are hurt because they are too self-righteous? Even as I type this, though, I realize it's just a circular argument. If I do admit to being offended, I'm too self-righteous. If I pretend it doesn't hurt, I'm lying to all parties involved. So, I choose to have forgiveness in my heart, because I was somewhat offended, just not in a lasting way.
My point about the victim and entitlement mentality is that everyone is complaining more, not just women.
"Compassion however does not overrule my reason. Not only does it not, but I find that a very undesirable trait." I have to admit that I can't relate to this way of thinking. I don't mean this in a rude way, I just know that I am much more governed by my emotions. I also believe, though, that God made me (and most women) that way. To a woman, reason and rationality are not the end-all. That may be very undesirable to you, but it's just the way I see it.
"But as far as giving things up, being confined, I think if people went into with that understanding than their marriages wouldn't be so disappointing." I agree with you on this point. I just think it doesn't help the situation to use words like "prison". Prison is pretty joyless, I understand, and there is much joy to be found in a marriage. As far as the other things, besides sex, to be gained from a marriage, I stand by them. Cleaner environment – I'm not purely talking about the asthetics of your home. I'm talking about the pleasure of coming home to a well-ordered home, made comfortable for you by a wife. Lifetime joy of children –I have no problem with adoption as being a good alternative for someone unmarried, but God did intend for the best type of home to be one with a mother and father. Also, the amazing moment of watching your child be born is something to not be dismissed quite so lightly. Someone to share the ups and downs of life –Honestly, no friend can equal the joy that comes from lying in bed at night, holding hands, and sharing the blessings and difficulties of a life. Sorry, you just don't get me here. The tennis partner statement was said tongue-in-cheek, but the principle still applies. Having a ready companion for recreational activities is important to all people. Some of my greatest joys have been watching movies, playing tennis, star-gazing, playing games and birdwatching/walking with my husband. Sure, you could attempt to replace all of these things in the way you suggested, but I still contend they are better with a wife, hands down.
I get what you are saying about "providing", but I still disagree. A housewife is providing a service just as much as a man who works outside the home. If she were to die, someone would have to be brought in to do the things she does, or the man would have to do them himself, thus increasing his workload significantly. This would be especially true if children were involved. And to be clear, there are many things about being a housewife that are like being a housemaid. I do all of the things for my home that a maid would do, I just don't get paid in dollars. I could easily get a job and hire a maid and babysitter, but I really consider it a privilege to stay home and raise my son for a while. But cleaning a toilet is cleaning a toilet, whether you are doing your own or getting paid for doing it for someone else. It doesn't make my view of women low, it just gives the bare-bones facts about what the day-to-day tasks of a housewife really are. They are valuable, both emotionally and monetarily.
Finally, I can see how men feel that way about hormones. And if you can't come to a less judgemental view about it, I agree that you should never saddle yourself with a wife. Because I assure you, if she's a woman she will be greatly affected by her hormones. As a man you have probably never experienced the following...
The monthly cycle of a very strong sex drive for about two weeks, followed by about two weeks of complete sexual indifference- HORMONES.
The amazing swelling of your body, in all areas, as a child makes its home within your body for 9 months-HORMONES
The excessive hot flashes that leave you and your bed drenched in sweat, night after night, as your body rids itself of those HORMONES that allowed you to carry that same child.
The absolute inability, and I do mean inability, to stop crying, in the two weeks after childbirth. This also often occurs for a couple of days a month, during a regular cycle.
The hallucinations of a cat that I saw, out of the corner of my eye, every night, for the entire time I was breastfeeding Radnor- HORMONES.
I could go on, but I'll leave it at that. Hormones are a fact of life with a woman, and with any man that lives with and loves a woman. You speak with such disgust about it, but one year in a woman's body, and you would understand a little better.
Having those hormones is not a sin. Once again, God made us that way for amazing purposes. I realize that there are sinful actions that are wrongly blamed on hormones, and I agree that these are things to be repented of. On the flip side of it though, there are many times that I hear a woman voice a legitimate complaint, and a man answers with, "It must just be your hormones." I would contend that this is just as much a sin for which repentance should be practiced. A little understanding and compassion, on the part of both spouses, will go a long way in this situation.
If maintaining the home is not considered providing simply because those tasks could be fulfilled by someone else, then that same argument could be made for the husband. He doesn’t really provide, because she could work or have a trust fund. If we’re making a list of things only a spouse could (or should) provide, then sex and children is it for both parties. All other benefits can be derived by other means and from other relationships.
If we’re looking at just the Biblical demands of each spouse, it’s true God remains quiet on many of the details. But submitting to your husband encompasses so many things. Just as the commands of providing and loving your wife do, too. Both commands are open to many interpretations. And they can each be fulfilled in various ways. Could it be that God remained silent on some details (marriage and non-marriage related) so that we have the freedom to tailor them to our own circumstances? After all, we were all created with unique strengths and weaknesses and with varying gifts. And as such, aren’t there infinite ways to bring glory to God?
I’d have to agree with Seth on the “hormones, hormones, hormones” comment. I think using hormones as an excuse for any behavior is completely unjustified. By blaming hormones, women are victimizing themselves. It’s as if they no longer have control of themselves and therefore are not responsible for their actions. Women were created to be more emotional; I don’t think anyone would disagree with this. But that certainly does not mean we can’t have control of ourselves.
(There was more I wanted to write, but it will have to wait. I didn't get home from work until after midnight last night, I have the boys this morning - who have been wrestling nearly the entire time I've been writing - and shortly I will head back to work for another 10 or 11 hours or so. But April 15th is just around the corner!!)
What is the “meat” of Christianity? When can we ever forget the milk of God incarnate coming to earth to die a substitutionary death for the enemy of God,me? The meat of Christianity is only a deeper understanding of the living water that we first gulped down when we initially passed from death to life. I'll never stop chewing on the fact that the Creator of the universe made me, loved me and bruised His own son, His very own image, to bring me to Himself. Not in this life nor the next. That is the only true, right and justifiable motivation for “living for God”. The deeper and more completely one understands this, the more “living for God” one can and will do.
I'm not trying to “use God as an excuse to never find [my] way back to joy”. If anything the exact opposite is true. I'm using God as an excuse to find my way back to joy (true joy that is, which can only be found in Him). I want joy more than anything. Yes, he gave us those things, but only as means to point us to Him. I'm not trying to abstain from anything as self inflicted punishment. I'm abstaining from things so that I can have God instead (You cannot have two masters. Either you will love the one and hate the other. Or hate the one and love the other.) There is no in between. I marvel that people would try and convince me to love God's blessings above God Himself. If I love God supremely, then I will love others rightly. If I try and love others supremely, not only will I fail in that, but I will love God wrongly as well. Christians today, myself included, have made God a cuckold. We receive His blessings and then use it to commit adultery with idols. When we tire of that idol, we take another of his blessings and begin committing adultery with it. I can't think of a better summation of our idols than “family, sex, and the beauty of nature”. I've only realized what I'm afraid many haven't. There's no true joy in them alone. There's only true joy in them through God. As for the faithful Christian, the biblical language of persecution, hardship, trials and afflictions, carrying your cross, self control, etc. seem to convey more of my mentality than what you seem to be portraying. But for the average Joe Christian who is only concerned with not going to hell rather than shining forth the light and love of Christ, then you're right, a non-sacrificial life is just the ticket. I've been him for twenty-nine years. It's not fulfilling. It's not joyful. Maybe Christ was right when He said that whoever desires to gain His life must lose it. That's all I'm trying to do is lose my life.
I never said that you shouldn't be free to give gifts. I never said that someone shouldn't be free to express his or her love language. In fact I said that you should. It's a duty. We should love ourselves and express it. How do we express love to ourselves? By using our love language and getting that “giddy joy”. Again, I'm not condemning you for it. I'm just stating what seems rational to me. By analogy, if you using Josh's love language says “I love you, Josh” (which is the whole point of the book), then you using Karina's love language says “I love you, Karina” (my own conclusion, though I think it's valid). Not meaning this as a diss, but this is one of those conceptualizations that I do. And whether you understand it or not, it's a proof (now maybe you can show how it's invalid). This is why I conceptualize everything. It makes it universal. The above proof fits my love languages as well. Me loving my wife in my wife's language says “I love you, wife.” Me loving my wife in my love language (having sex or quality time) says “I love you, Seth”. I recognize this and that's why I wouldn't marry any female who wasn't a Christian nympho (That's actually a site. I was looking it up to see if that's really the word I wanted to use and found it.) But that's beside the point.
Really, I still don't know what offended you. When someone tells me that I've offended them I'm usually like, “Really?” I can't think of one thing in my post that would make you sad. I can usually assume that anything said that's not positive about women will offend, but that's only because I've seen them offended for so many unknown reasons. I really don't understand it. If I'm wrong, why are you offended? I'm wrong. If I'm right, why are you offended? That I was perceptive enough to see your sins and honest enough to say it? What other alternative is there?
I think we should be able to be completely honest with each other. And I think we should be able to have others be completely honest with us. I think that, honesty, should be the boundary. Where do you think it should be? What makes a person feel good? What is comfortable to say? The truth shall set you free. You've never offended me in the several years I've known you. And yet I say that even though I know that I'm not at all the type of guy you 'd be attracted to. That doesn't bother me. I can't understand why someone would be hurt other than they have too high a view of themselves or they've been convicted of sin. Is there another reason? The two times I've been hurt it was because I had too high a view of myself and I sinned. Really, I'd like to understand how you've been offended.
And my point about the victim mentality is that, yes, everyone is complaining, but solid Christian men seem to through Christ be able to overcome that. I don't see women, even supposedly solid Christian women, able to. Your appeal to hormones is an example of this. I don't hear men (the ones I know, not society at large) making excuses. More on that later.
My point was not to say that those things don't exist or even that they aren't better with a wife than a friend (though the infallible testimony the Bible makes of David and Jonathan's relationship seems to say that), but to say that those are not what makes marriage categorically different from every other relationship. The difference you speak of (which is debatable) is by degree, not categorically. I still maintain that sex is the only categorical difference.
Thanks, Julie. I wasn't going to point it out, but, yes, blaming hormones is just as much the victim mentality that Karina was railing against as blaming your upbringing, race or any of the other circumstantial situations humans go through in this life. If hormones are an excuse for sin then so is not having a dad in the picture or a mom who stayed at home. I wasn't denying the reality of hormones (My own sex drive is unexplainable apart from it. Women I have no respect for in any area besides physical beauty I still want to sleep with.) I never mentioned crying at the drop of a hat as being sinful. Nor do I consider any of the things you mentioned (dreams about cats, monthly bleeding, varying sex drive, carrying a baby, hot flashes nor any of the other stuff you could go on and on about) as sinful. They are the facts of womanhood. But when those things, or anything else, causes someone not to be Christlike, then it's sin. Sure I could learn things if I spent a year in a woman's body. Women could learn some things if they spent a year in a man's body. I could learn things if I spent a year in the woods. That's totally irrelevant. I'd still call sin sin. Just because lust is my biggest struggle doesn't mean I regard it as merely a product of being a male and something I should live with. It's a sin that unless vanquished will drag me to hell with it. I just wish I heard women talk about their whining, complaining, victim mentality, nagging in those terms (or whatever sin it is that so easily besets them). But I don't think I've ever heard a woman talk about any sin in those terms (I take that back. A girl online seemed to have a pretty serious view of her sin. But she had other things in common with guys besides that.). Is it because they honestly don't have easily besetting sins? Or, much more likely, is it because their sins are so commonplace that they aren't even regarded as sins, just “women's issues”?
Personally I have little if any stake in this. I don't have a wife, girlfriend nor am I likely to ever have one again. And despite what one might think from reading this, I actually have a few female friends who I get along quite well with. From my point of view I even get along well with you, Rina. It's always been an endeavor of mine not to let my understanding of truth be affected by how it will affect me personally. So even though personally I'm quite removed from the issue, I think there are tremendous effects for women, their marriages and most of all, the glory of God if women would start to seriously confess and repent of their sins (Just like I would say the same for men with lust and pornography, though I'm not so removed from that issue).
I agree that men who dismiss their wives complaints with “It must be your hormones.” are often wrong. Some times he needs to heed her complaint (though I don't know if there's ever an excuse to complain, but that's a separate issue) and address the sin in his own life. Other times I believe it's an issue of sin on the wife's part that the husband needs to call his wife out on and encourage her to repent.
The issues I was bringing up was not whether someone else COULD provide them, but what the Bible explicitly says each MUST provide. I admit that Yes, I was just looking at the biblical demands on the spouse. And I agree the Bible doesn't go into great detail.
Seth, my response to much of what you said about Christian marriage is that I'm sorry and saddened that your experience has brought you to such conclusions and perspectives.
It makes me wish that I could upload to you the experience I have had of being married to an incredible, loving, respectful, sacrificial, self-denying, other-serving woman as my wife and the mother to our children, who is so because she is being transformed by the Gospel of Christ. The satisfaction I have had in her is all conclusive and multi-dimensional (including companionship, helper, lover, and provider for me and my children in ways that you seem not to have noticed among others).
I wish I could transfer to you the many wonderful pastoral experiences I have had in pre-marital counseling, marital counseling, and pastoral oversight to see how God is working by His grace to change people who are by nature as you describe them progressively (though imperfectly) into the biblical standard.
This doesn't change the reality of marriages (and people) who are not living by the Gospel in those relationships, and who are ultimately driven by self-satisfaction (whether male or female) instead of Christ-like and humble servanthood. The moral "angst" that this evokes is itself a demonstration of an awareness of what we long for, and that by the transforming grace of God can be pursued in the only relationship that uniquely reflects (even in this life) the glorious relationship of the Lord Jesus and His Church.
Biblical love, according to Scripture, believes and hopes all things. As a shepherd of God's flock, I continue to labor in hope that men and women can, as they are filled with the Spirit, can be transformed by the renewing of their mind. If I didn't believe and hope in this, I would give up pastoring.
I am thankful for your post, that it has drawn me to see afresh the grace of God in an imperfect, but transforming church.
Thanks, Pastor Stephen. There would certainly be benefits if we could "upload" our experiences to others, but obviously that's not the way God has given us to learn. I think you also would acknowledge that we have a more sure foundation than experiences in the word of God. I trust there is nothing (pertaining to life and godliness) I could learn from experiences (whether mine or yours) that I cannot learn in God's infallible word. My arguments for a greater appreciation of sex I thought were at least somewhat biblical. The apparent (though personally untested) apathy of many Christian wives and disregard for their husbands dissatisfaction was what I was targeting. I have never denied the benefits of marriage (though Christ and Paul seem to see it only as good, but not best) and am exceedingly happy that you are content in your marriage. You are one of the living men who I most admire and are exempt from most of my generalizations. I also hope and believe all things, which is the purpose of my posts. There are some things I think I see more clearly than others. There are other things I know I do not. My posts are an attempt to propagate those ideas that I feel I have some insight into. Ironic as it seems, as an unmarried man, I feel my views are more uncluttered than the average married man's on this issue (perhaps just as the majority of the biblical teaching we have on the issue of marriage came from unmarried men). It is my honest hope and belief that some man or woman will be convicted of the biblical truth, in as much as I have conveyed it, and come to serve God more fully through His Spirit. And though I am no pastor, I think I also have the Spirit of God.
"Now before you condemn me for an egotistical maniac, isn't that what the call to marriage is? Isn't that what love is? As Piper said, “overflowing joy in God that gladly meets the needs of others.” "
I don't understand why you quote a Christian author.
First off, "overflowing joy in God that gladly meets the needs of others" does not equal "slave". Maybe you were using "slave" for provocative effect. However, I find blogs that are written in a provocative method are taken less seriously. And I think the fact that you would even bring up the fact that people would assume you're an egotistical maniac is because you think you tend to be one, or that if you were reading a blog of the same nature, that is what /you/ would think.
Secondly, as I'm sure you've read this before, love "suffereth long, and is kind...envieth not...vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things."
None of that says "slave" to me. It says, "Jesus Christ". What is love? "God is love". And I think that's what God is trying to show us in 1 Cor. 13. Love is Christ-like. Whether it's towards a husband, wife, sibling, parent, or friend. That's what real love is, in any relationship. And notice that nowhere does it is say, 'will always make you happy or try to make you happy'.
Cheers!
I feel completely justified in using slave. In fact, after reading the preceding post, I feel even more justified in using it. I am, as of yet, no Greek scholar, but I think a word study would bear out the validity of using that term were it undertaken.
I have to completely disagree. It's a wonder why 'slave' wasn't seen fit to be used instead, then...I also wonder as to how you could look at all the characteristics of love and somehow think that it defines 'slave'. Or that the definition of love could imply that it makes one happy all the time and is the chief of it's purposes. Especially since the Bible is also clear that God is love. Surely 'God is slave' doesn't fit.
But perhaps instead of a vague statement, you could give reason behind your thoughts on the matter so that understanding and learning could ensue for all who read, including myself.
My apologies if I have not labored enough with my words to dull their edge. I wrote this out rather quickly and would rather just post it.
It is true, “overflowing joy in God that gladly meets the needs of others” does not equal “slave” for most people. But that's because most people are ignorant, particularly of how the Bible defines things. “Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ, not by the way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart.” Ephesians 6:5-6 This is what slavery should be. Actually, this is what slavery is. I would argue that what existed in early American history was not slavery, but merely some evil enterprise that people called slavery in order to find support for it from the Bible. I won't go into showing how similar Ephesians 6:5-6 and Piper's definition are to each other for time's sake, but I would not at all be surprised if that verse was an integral part of his development of his definition. If you really can't see it yourself then I probably wouldn't be able to explain it anyway.
As for the things I wrote giving the impression that I'm an egotistical maniac, I only say that because most people's ideas on the subject are so unbiblical, that my biblical ideas (as I see them) are extremely radical. It is sad that even in among Christians my views (again, which are biblical as far as I can understand) would illicit such a response, but I recognize this. Even your responses have born it out. My blog is not provocative because of my writing, but rather because the truth is provocative. Christianity is, by nature but not in practice, a provocative religion. I rejoice that you would view my blog as provocative. The NT was quite provocative. Jesus teachings were unbelievably provocative. At least in that respect I am succeeding. If you fail to take anything provocative seriously, then that is a fault of yours, not mine.
As for 1 Corinthians 13 not saying “slave”, I again must say that's because you have an unbiblical view of slavery (or love or both). I'll take just a couple points “suffereth long”, hmmm, can't imagine how that would fit into slavery. “is kind”, hmmm, can't imagine how “a sincere heart, as you would Christ” would result in kindness. “envieth not”, hmmm, can't imagine how “obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling” wouldn't be a prohibition against envy. “vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up”, hmmm can't imagine how “not by way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as slaves to Christ” would prevent one from vaunting himself up or being puffed up. I could go on and on. This is exactly how we should serve Christ, which makes perfect sense, since we are “slaves of Christ.” You pointing this out has not destroyed but strengthened my case and given me more assurance that my provocative idea is in fact very biblical. For that I thank you.
You (again) misunderstand “happy”, though admittedly I probably should have used “joy” as Piper does in the definition. “Happy” was not in reference to giddy feelings or ignorant bliss, but rather the fullness of joy we have in Christ. Anyone who loves should be trying to help the object of love attain, or perhaps rather, experience and know that fullness of joy in Christ (I'd have to look into whether we already have it or not). That does not mean never confronting you with sin, rebuking you or any of the other things that often make people sad. In fact it means precisely the opposite. Because true joy and sin are antithesis, meeting the needs of others requires us to help others mortify sin. This is often painful and resisted and does not make people happy. However, our goal is not temporal giddy feelings but everlasting joy in the presence of God. Love does seek this, always. If your love does not seek this then I would say you don't really love. If you are seeking anything besides the person's everlasting joy then you aren't loving.
As my friend pointed out to me, as unloving as I think I am, this blog, precisely because of the confrontational attitude I take on many sins, is in fact loving. It is my effort to help you the reader understand and root out sin that I see plaguing the church. And that is loving, even if it comes from a selfish prick.
Amidst your gross generalisations concerning women and your promulgation of the supposed spiritual superiority of men, you likened man's entering into the covenant bond of marriage to that of Christ's entering into his sufferings. You sought to draw a parallel between "the joy set before Christ" and the joy of sex. I want to investigate here whether the joy of Christ is in any way comparable to the gain that men receive in sex as you seek to put forward, or, as I believe, it rather proves to be the opposite.
What was the joy set before Christ? What was it that Christ appropriated through His enduring of the cross?
Christ accomplished redemption on the cross. Redemption, "apolutrosis" that is "to loose" (luo) "away from" (apo) sin. Now, you may, at this very moment be pouncing on my point to prove your own. But before you put forward that Christ receives joy from His people, and that this is the joy referred to and can be compared to the joy received from sex; I say that Christ receives nothing from His People. We give nothing to Christ, we cannot add to His glory, nor give Him pleasure through anything that we do. What is it that delights Christ? It is the taking of the gifts that he offers.
Ps 116:12-13 "What shall I render unto the LORD for all his benefits toward me? I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the LORD."So here we find, that that which pleases the Lord and should be rendered to Him in return for his benefits, is to take yet more benefits. So, it seems, that the pleasure of Jesus Christ is to give not to receive. Therefore, to use such a text is to argue with the point you were in the very process of making. We, as men, do not enter into the covenant bond of marriage to take, but to give with no thought of receiving. Likewise the women are to do the same. The most basic understanding of covenant theology should lead you to this position. Why is it that the Lord loved Israel? "It was not because you were more in number than any other people that the LORD set his love on you and chose you, for you were the fewest of all peoples, but it is because the LORD loves you." Deut 7:7-8He set His love on Israel because He loved them, not because He was to gain something from them.
Your point about women today being very self centered and possessing the attitude of "get, get, get" was not only very generalised and stereotypical, but also quite offensive to me. My girlfriend is the exact opposite of what you described women to be, giving with no apparent thought of reward and I believe many woman are the same.
You go on to say that you have never seen a marriage that you are envious of. Both of these revelations about how you see both women and marriage lead be to believe that you are either an extremely cynical person, or you live in a place devoid of any sort of Biblical Church or the common grace of God.
I perceive you to have had some kind of ill-experience with a woman at some point in your past, either that or perhaps you labor under a misunderstanding and/or misconception about women. This is the conclusion that this particular section of your latest post leads me to - lent credence by your lack of desire to be married at all - which desire I daresay will be fulfilled seeing as how your criteria seems to be simply "give me sex."
I confess I did not read the entire post, but judging from the part I did read (a full section with all the context) and extrapolating from it, I feel perhaps it was wise that I did not.
Though you may make sound and biblical points throughout, your sharp use of language and even the way you respond to comments causes you to come across to me as arrogant and perhaps merely pseudo-spiritual.
As Paul put it in 1 Cor 13:1 "If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal."
As your profile makes clear, you wish to be a servant of God and used of Him. I do not in the least wish to discourage you from this most noble of goals, but I do wish to discourage you from the methods you currently make use of. You may think it is the truth that is provocative, but be assured that it is not. Truth can be spoken in such a way as to encourage, and should be whenever possible. The truth must be spoken in love for the truth; if you love the truth that you proclaim you will not proclaim it in such a way as to set people against it, not because of the truth itself, but because of the way you communicated it. The only time that Christ used harsh language and tones was when He spoke against the religious hypocrites of His day. You are not doing so, nor are you called by Him to be an under-shepherd (pastor). Your rant was unhelpful and unnecessary. You are not dealing with hypocrites but with quite probably ignorant girls and women.
Please, consider this the "tough love" you seem so willing to dish out to others.
"As for 1 Corinthians 13 not saying “slave”, I again must say that's because you have an unbiblical view of slavery (or love or both). I'll take just a couple points “suffereth long”, hmmm, can't imagine how that would fit into slavery. “is kind”, hmmm, can't imagine how “a sincere heart, as you would Christ” would result in kindness. “envieth not”, hmmm, can't imagine how “obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling” wouldn't be a prohibition against envy. “vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up”, hmmm can't imagine how “not by way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as slaves to Christ” would prevent one from vaunting himself up or being puffed up. I could go on and on. This is exactly how we should serve Christ, which makes perfect sense, since we are “slaves of Christ.” You pointing this out has not destroyed but strengthened my case and given me more assurance that my provocative idea is in fact very biblical. For that I thank you."
Ah, I think I'm seeing the communication problem now.
I have to agree that while this seems to be a definition of slavery, it is really not. Instead of a definition of what slavery IS, this is a definition of how slaves should BEHAVE. With...LOVE. You USE love in this slavery. Just like you should use love in all relationships. This is how slaves are supposed to behave...with love. Just like friends are to behave with love, spouses are to behave with love, siblings, parent/sibling relationships...you get the idea.
It's not our beliefs that's conflicting, it's our reasoning, along with misunderstandings of how we're defining terms.
Your reasoning here is (and correct me if I'm wrong): Everyone should have a slave relationship (or at least in marriage, since that's what your post referred to) because it exhibits these characteristics.
Whereas, my reasoning is: The slave/master relationship is a TYPE of relationship that love is to be used in, and love should be used in all types of relationships.
Does that make sense to you, how it's our reasoning that's in conflict?
"You (again) misunderstand “happy”, though admittedly I probably should have used “joy” as Piper does in the definition. “Happy” was not in reference to giddy feelings or ignorant bliss, but rather the fullness of joy we have in Christ. Anyone who loves should be trying to help the object of love attain, or perhaps rather, experience and know that fullness of joy in Christ (I'd have to look into whether we already have it or not). That does not mean never confronting you with sin, rebuking you or any of the other things that often make people sad. In fact it means precisely the opposite. Because true joy and sin are antithesis, meeting the needs of others requires us to help others mortify sin. This is often painful and resisted and does not make people happy. However, our goal is not temporal giddy feelings but everlasting joy in the presence of God. Love does seek this, always. If your love does not seek this then I would say you don't really love. If you are seeking anything besides the person's everlasting joy then you aren't loving."
Is it because I misunderstood "happy", or is it because you misspoke? I believe it is the latter. And now that you have corrected yourself, I understand.
'My blog is not provocative because of my writing, but rather because the truth is provocative. Christianity is, by nature but not in practice, a provocative religion. I rejoice that you would view my blog as provocative.'
I never once said your blog is provocative. I said your use of the word 'slave' could be considered provocative. And that blogs written in a provocative form tend to be taken less seriously. This has nothing to do with the truth. However, I think that we've hit another communication problem, which is my fault. Because when I'm using the word 'provocative', I mean it in in a sense that would provoke not to the truth, but arguments where nothing is accomplished.
"As my friend pointed out to me, as unloving as I think I am, this blog, precisely because of the confrontational attitude I take on many sins, is in fact loving. It is my effort to help you the reader understand and root out sin that I see plaguing the church. And that is loving, even if it comes from a selfish prick."
If your blog is loving, then the motivation for writing it and attitude you take in writing it and explaining should be loving. Since no reader can absolutely know for certain what your motivation is in writing the blog, we are left with the attitude in how you wrote it. Of which I'm going to have to say I don't find loving at all. You want to help people, but you seem so focused on using belittling people's thoughts and opinions and trying to understand them, and very little on trying to get your readers to understand what you're really trying to say and where you're coming from. There are many ways you could improve your communication in your blog writing to avoid misunderstanding and therefore further the truth and your own valued thoughts, but it doesn't seem as if you care to. I find this sad, because little information can be passed in the end, and no learning occurs. Only frustration. Communication is important, and Jesus understood that...it's why he spoke in parables. I encourage you to work on your communication skills, because while I understand that this blog is nothing more than random thoughts, some people actually take it seriously, and it's full of communication problems in all areas, problems that are completely unnecessary and causing unnecessary conflict among believers. I am reminded that we are, if I may paraphrase, "to strive to live in peace with all men, as much as within us." Sometimes conflict is necessary. This isn't one of them.
Bob, I honestly thank you greatly for your response and the obvious time you put into it and the biblical emphasis you wrote it with. As far as receiving it as “tough love”, there is no such thing. There is only love. It was received as such.
My point was not that sex is like the joy received by Christ, but that He endured hardship and suffering to receive it (even though as you pointed out, His joy is to give), just as men endure the hardships of marriage for the joy of sex. The relationship was not His joy to our joy, His suffering to our suffering, but rather His suffering for His joy, our suffering for our joy. I would also make the analogy of women bearing children. Their present suffering (pains of childbearing) for the joy of children. Or even to the present suffering of training (beating ones body) for the future joy of victory that Paul speaks of. In all of these I think the analogy applies. That was my point. While I agree with your exposition, it contradicts a point I never made (at least if I am understanding the thrust of your argument). I wonder if the section you missed was where I discussed that for me, saying, “I do.” was saying “I'm committed to joyfully and obsessively make you happy, regardless of the cost to me for the rest of my life.” Do you see the “regardless of the cost to me” part and the “make [her] happy,” part? I hope, should you marry your girlfriend, she is so blessed as for you to have that attitude.
On the subject of your girlfriend, I am still flabbergasted that people would take offense at generalizations. I'm glad you have such a seemingly exceptional woman. I don't deny that she is one. You can evaluate whether she is guilty of my accusations. If she is, then take it and grow. If she's not, then rejoice. If my accusations are illegitimate accusations completely, then dismiss them. You can lament I have an incorrect understanding, but I don't know why you would be offended.
As for being cynical, I am to a great degree, and feel completely justified in it. Cynicism, the idea that everything is motivated by selfishness, is I think biblical (which is why the Bible often appeals to our self interests. It, though many Christians do not, acknowledges the reality of it). We cannot willing do what we don't want to. From Mother Teresa, Brainerd and other seemingly sacrificial missionaries, to me, to you, and even Paul, we always do what we want to do. This is not the question. The question is whether our selfishness is according to the truth of the Bible or whether it is contrary to it. Whether we understand that what is in fact best for us (and thus what we should be selfish for) is what God has in fact prescribed or whether we try and operate independently of Him and His wisdom and determine what is ultimately in our best interests. So yes, I am cynical. Those that aren't I don't think have every really pondered the issue.
As for my relationships with women, yes, the two I've had have been disastrous, but I certainly don't blame them for that. I have often said that the one thing I'm worst at is being a boyfriend. Lamentably, I suck at it. If you have read any of my other posts, you would see that I certainly do not put myself up on a pedestal as a model to be imitated. But this is because I cannot (or rather have not) been able to act consistent with the knowledge I have been given, not because my fundamental views are incorrect. Yes, one of my criteria would definitely be “give me sex” along with also having the disposition I mentioned earlier of being “committed to joyfully and obsessively make [me] happy, regardless of the cost to [her] for the rest of [her] life. That my prophecy will be fulfilled is a fact I've acknowledged and found comfort in God.
True, Christ was harsh with hypocrites. My blog is read by hypocrites. It's written by a hypocrite. The church is full of hypocrites. You're a hypocrite. If you deny this, then you've just proved yourself a hypocrite. If you acknowledge it, why condemn me for dealing with them as Christ did? I do not think there are many unconverted people sincerely out there searching through blogs to answer the question, “What must I do to be saved?” Those reading blogs are usually either looking for issues to dispute or looking for the less preached teachings of the Bible (just as the writers of blogs are usually either looking to dispute or looking to espouse those teachings that they don't think are preached in church). That is again a generalization, but I think true at least in my case and some of my readers (there is a familial interest in some of my readers as well). As for the intelligence of my female readers, if they are in fact ignorant as you say, then women as a whole are in a far worse position then I suspected, for they are, at least concerning the ones I personally know, the most intelligent women I've met. If they are ignorant, I shudder to think how completely clueless those women are who even I think are ignorant. I hope any who read your post are not so sensitive as you and offended by being called ignorant.
As for the benefit of my posts, they are beneficial to me at least. I cannot help but believe that dialogue between genuine believers, where there is rebuke, exhortation and encouragement, is beneficial. It is true that some cannot handle rebuke or a challenge to their thinking and easily get offended, but I do not think we should forsake our responsibilities (even as laymen) to cater to these I know some of my views are wrong just as surely as some of yours are wrong. I don't know which ones of mine are (else I'd change them), and if I don't put them out there neither mine nor yours will be corrected . The fact that you posted is evidence of the sanctifying nature of Christian dialogue.
Again, I sincerely appreciate your post. It's unfortunate that speaking with this “tough love” is something that apparently you do not feel free to do often. You deprive the church and your fellow believers of much needed exhortation and rebuke from what appears to be an intelligent and serious Christian brother.
As far as paralleling the suffering of Christ with the suffering of a man in marriage goes, I don't want to enter into that particular sphere of discussion. However, if that was not in fact the point you were making (viz, that Christ's joy is the same as ours) I now wish to make it.
Throughout Scripture Christ and the Church are compared to a man and His Bride. No doubt you know this.
Men are to love their wives even as Christ loved the Church. Christ loved the Church by giving Himself for it. His love was sacrificial; purely sacrificial. His Church gave Him nothing - only suffering. But it was His delight to do so, for He delights to give.
This is our pattern as men and husbands - to give. I think you've taken a principle that John Piper puts across in "Desiring God" i.e. Christian Hedonism, and applied it in the wrong place. Yes, I love God because He blesses me, so in effect i love Him because I gain joy from Him. However, the joy that I gain from my wife is not the joy of what she gives, it is the joy of what she is. Thus, she being what she is (my delight) causes me to desire to give to her. It's my joy to make her happy, because when she's happy, I'm happy. Not to put her "in the mood" but to make her happy just because I delight to see her happy.
Christ makes us happy because he delights to make me happy. His joy is seeing us happy.
A husbands joy is seeing his wife happy; not because he gets to have sex. By that argument, as soon as a man loses his sexual drive, the marriage should descend into unhappiness and a lack of joy, because the man no longer has what you define as "his joy" and thus has no incentive to sacrifice all for the sake of his wife.
The main issue I have with this post is your manner. I can see and appreciate that you are well read and have an understanding of these things. However, I have to say that your manner in communicating the truth does not become your espoused goal to exhort and encourage. Paul's epistles, though filled with rebuke and correction of error are always tempered with encouragement and love.
The Lord calls for pastors, shepherds that tenderly lead and guide the flock, not that beat them and goad them into the right way. They, if they are saved, are the Lord's people. What right do you have to smite and scold His sheep?
Jer 23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.Swallow your pride, rethink the presentation of your thoughts and I believe your blog will be more beneficial, both to you and to those who read it.
(Sorry if my thoughts are a little incoherent, it's pretty late.)
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